Back to the Basics – Entrepreneurship, Marketing, Technology and COVID

In the world of technology, new ideas are boundless.  For entrepreneurs, this means endless possibilities for a new SaaS offering or creative way to go to market.  But what happens when billion-dollar unicorns start to fall flat?  Or when the predictive outbound model begins to stall? What will companies do when faced with a pandemic?

If you spend anytime chatting with Justin Gray, CEO of LeadMD, you’ll quickly realize the answers are rooted in focus.  In this episode, Justin shares his unique insight into sales, marketing, technology, and entrepreneurship earned through years of success.

Justin and Kyle discuss:

  • What companies need to do to compete
  • How companies can get the focus they need
  • Why RevOps may not be the right answer
  • When is the right time to start a company
  • Where should you focus on if you want sustained growth as a startup
  • Who is winning during COVID

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TRANSCRIPT

Intro: 

Welcome to The Summit. A podcast focused on bringing you the knowledge and insights for industry leaders. I’m your host, Kyle Hamer and I’m on a mission to help you exceed your potential. As a sales guy, turned marketer, I am passionate about building sustainable businesses. And if there’s one thing I’ve learned in my 20 years , it’s you won’t find an overnight growth-scheme, a shortcut to success, or a way to hack yourself. Nope, success is the by-product of hard work great relationships and deep understanding done over and over. We’re here to help you unlock that success with some secrets from other people, one conversation at a time.

Kyle Hamer: 

Welcome back to another episode of summit podcast. I’m your host Kyle Haimer today with me on the show, we have Jason Lee , Jason, welcome to the show. Hey, good morning. Glad to be here. Uh , we’re super excited to have you for those of you who don’t know, Jason, Jason is the VP at growth, no smart group Houston. He’s the host of Gulf, the Gulf coast growth show, which is a mouthful. It’s a podcast. If you need to, you need to tune into it. Uh, Jason is an entrepreneur connector and relationship builder. He’s a believer husband and father, and you’ll find him injecting hope into people. He meets through positivity, empathy, and always looking for a way to help. Jason, what did I miss?

Jason Lee: 

Uh, I don’t know , man, that was way better than my bio. I was going to try to say all kinds of fancy stuff about all my cool achievements and awards. Um, you know , uh, I was the , uh , national , uh, midget wrestling champion , uh , on the Southeast corridor. So it was kind of a big deal. I’m just kidding. So now I, I , uh, I appreciate that. I’m very humble because , uh, you, you created the bio. I thought that was pretty cool, man. I appreciate that. If that’s how you see me, I feel pretty , uh , grateful for that. You’ve been a pretty cool guy to get to know. So

Kyle Hamer: 

Thanks man. It’s , uh , it has been fun adding each other to , to our tribes and kind of running into each other, you know, the reason I wanted to have you on the show and for those that are listening is you have an attitude of never surrender. And as an outside sales guy COVID has been brutal. And so I thought, you know, let’s just, let’s have a conversation with somebody who’s been living what’s going on in the , in the world of sales or selling door to door or outside in, in a time of lockdown in time of shut in and tine of offices being closed or people not being in the office. And , um, tell me a little bit about what the last six, nine months has been like for you. I mean , your , uh , your relationship guy. So how’s zoom working for you.

Jason Lee: 

Oh, man. Uh , well, so first of all , um , I’ll say this man, if, if , if I, if it wasn’t for faith, right. And , uh, and the ability to have faith , um, you know, if I was relying on me prior to that , uh, it would probably be way worse than it has been, but fortunately I’ve been able to have that and have a little bit of peace kind of built around that. But yeah, man , it’s been a, for lack of a better term, it’s been a really big roller coaster of emotions. Right. I was picture that , uh , uh, Ron burgundy , uh, w do you know, scene where he’s in the glass , uh , box of emotions , um, when his dog dies, I kind of feel like that’s kind of where I’ve been at, right? It’s just this big glass box of emotions. Um, it’s been tough. Um , but at the same time , uh, you know, I think , uh, forcing and challenging yourself to have to think outside of the box, actually start to embrace. Uh , I come from an old school methodology to cells , um, kind of that , uh, grind until you get there mentality. Um, and so I think early on , um, there was this grind until, you know, I was just grind my way out of it. I’m a fitness background. I have a lot of , uh , experience and just having to like push through everything. Um, and so I’ve kind of started that way and then have since learned to really kind of accept the pause and start to try to look at more creative ways and strategic ways to be more forward thinking and forward focusing, as opposed to just , uh , you know, I guess, pedal to the metal full speed and , uh, and just, you know, really from , I don’t want to say volume, but I just believe that tenacity is what wins. And so sometimes it’s hard to be tenacious when you can only get through a zoom call and you can’t really get in front of the person yet, or you , they haven’t really moved to a place where you can get to that next meeting yet. So , um, usually I would just , uh, you know, I told a guy one time , um , he took the meeting after a while. I chased him for a long time. I said, you know, one of two things is going to happen. You’re either going to call the cops or we’re going to , you know, we’re going to become good friends. And so he finally took the meeting. So now it’s like, I, you know, I can’t get to see them a hundred percent. So that’s been tough, but yeah, overall it’s been pretty good. I mean, I’m not , I’m not in good learning. It’s been a learning experience.

Kyle Hamer: 

Well, you said you, you mentioned there, you said that, Hey, there’ve been some things that you’ve had to think about. Maybe give a little introspective and not stack the deck. I’m guessing with, you know, 400 zooms in a week or in a month. What’s um, what are some of the creative ways that you’ve had to learn to engage or think strategically when you’re, when you’re stuck in an environment where you can’t go rub elbows, have coffee, go play golf, do the things that you’re used to doing for developing that relationship and developing that rapport?

Jason Lee: 

Well, one of them is , uh, uh, you know, being more active in , uh, engaging with people through social media and not just , uh , pursuing them through social media. So , um , you know, it’s easy to get into a social platform and essentially get trapped into the scroll, you know, bad habit or the, you know, the , um, you know, we both know that we all, we all know that social media is a tool, but it’s also a very dangerous tool in the sense that it would come at a time bandit , or you can get on there. And so, you know, one thing, one thing you , you go , I want to go on LinkedIn, I’m gonna pursue these 10 people. And then an hour later, you’ve not gone anywhere. And you’ve just kind of argued with some dude about, you know, whatever. Um , and so you’re like, why the hell was I doing? So I think , um , being intentional , uh , on social media has really become a craft and something that I’m really trying to focus on. I’ve I was , uh , I would say better at it or good getting better and teaching that before this, and now have had to really master that because I don’t want to be on social media all day. As a matter of fact, I don’t even have the apps on my phone , um, because they are time bandits . So I try to pull them up in a w you know , when I’m tactically going to get into them and use them as a resource, and it’s not just going to sell. So I don’t go in and tell them to just get the, to pursue clients, people such as yourself, other people in my tribe , uh, that I, that I’m committed to that we’re , we know we’re, we’re relying on a relational piece, right. So, you know, I want Kyle to think about Jason either when he has a big case and some money comes in, or he runs a clamp cross a client, he’s trying to retain some key people. Um, I don’t want him to be like, I want that to be top of mine. And so in the past, I might run into Kyle regularly at some kind of social event, or, you know, at a , uh , an , an organization we started on. But since those things are coming together, I want, I don’t want Kyle to think like, man , um, you know, Jason is , he’s done a really great job of pitching me in my inbox all day long. I won’t call it think man, every time I put some content out, Jason’s engaging with me and talking to me. And so virtually am creating relationship with Jason. So now I feel like, because I’ve been able to keep up with your content and the work that you’re doing. Like, even though I haven’t seen you in several months, I don’t feel distant from you. Um, and so I like to think that given the right opportunity, you shouldn’t present yourself. I would stand out to you , uh, more than a , you know, let’s say a guy who , um , you know, the last three emails you got from him, or like, Hey, you know, can I talk to you about dryer Ray or, Hey, can I talk to you about , uh, you know, what are your thoughts on the market conditions? You know, stuff like that. Um, I don’t think, I think you’d probably be more in tune with me , uh , because you and I have, you know , virtual or virtual friends. Right. And so I bet we’re more than that, but we’ve been able to sustain that. So that would be my, my kind of 2 cents for that.

Kyle Hamer: 

So now you talked about being strategic with social media, and then I think one of the things you just touched on there was as like , Hey , you don’t have it on your phone. You only bring it up on your computer. What are some, some of the different ways in which you can help minimize getting stuck in a doom scroller , or, you know , being inundated with a bunch of things you don’t want to see or non non-related prospects or people that like, how, how do you use social media to be intentional? Like you’re talking about to create these relationships. Is there a technique you have, is there tools that you use, how are you using it?

Jason Lee: 

Um, first of all, let me say this there’s been, there’s been peaks and valleys during the season. So I think that’s something that I’ll want to make sure, I think it’s okay to have peaks and valleys. Um, there are some times when I just want to mind on this leash role , um, you know, because I just feel like it, and usually that’s where I’ll go to Facebook. Um, you know, I’ll , I’ll mindlessly scroll Facebook or whatever. Um, we , we, we, I also believe that we, you know, I would say this early on in the pandemic , um, I was regularly tuned into the news. And so because was regularly tuned into the news because I was concerned about what was happening with COVID. I mean, Hey, I mean, I don’t think we’d ever been through this. So I remember I would constantly get this Twitch going and check it on my phone and then , uh, and then it became the election and then it became the markets. So we start crying habitually going back to resources or conversations because they’re, they’re crawling right there. They suck you in to like, Oh my God, what’s happening. Uh , because our world was flipped upside down. So , um, I’ve had to, you know, I’ve had peaks and valleys, but I think in the last month or so, I really kinda had to take a step back and say, okay, I can’t , uh, I can’t allow myself , uh, Norfolk for the success of myself and my family, my clients, the people that I care about to , um , to get baited into , uh, what these, you know , if you look at the , uh , show, the social dilemma, I know like, it’s like, I know what it’s doing and I can’t, you know, you can’t stop, you know, you’re like, I know these guys are PEs , peppering me with this crap for a reason, and I’m still going back to it. So I think it’s becoming consciously aware of it , uh, and being intentional about it. That’s all, that’s all it’s really been is , you know, whenever I said , uh, I have , uh , like a lot of sales guys , uh, I have a , um, uh , kind of a model from a high, fast start. My follow through is kind of in hand, right? I mean, if , I think , you know, usually the follow through the 10 follow through guys, that guy that loves to be on a CRM and he’s, you know, third out of, or third from the bottom second from the bottom. Cause he’s, the CRM was, but doesn’t like to go crush grows . I like to just be in front of people, serve it on and take care of them. But a lot times if I don’t hold discipline to things, I’ll get it all over the board. So it’s easy. So my best resources taking a day , uh , set a timer for when I’m intentional doing those things and then saying , okay, I, I’m going to scroll through, for example, I use sales navigator on LinkedIn. So I’ll pick , um , who I’m following, why I’m . So you’re one of them. So, you know, today it’s on my calendar after this call from 11 to 12 is LinkedIn activity. Without that means I go into , um , navigator and my larger, all the people that I’ve already triggered. So these are people that I’ve heard of here in my tribe, or that I’ve created on a, on a target list. And when I say targeted hate to use that term, but really there are relational target risks . Cause I don’t know what they are yet. I don’t know if they’re a friend or prospect or if they’re a referral partner, but , um, you know, so while I’m sitting, sending them drip campaigns, I go through and I click on them and then as I’m clicking through their content, I’m starting to form an opinion of who I want to work with or who I want to have that relationship with. And so as I see people who potentially don’t act, think, or breathe into , or , you know , uh, invite the way that I would write . So if I click on someone’s stuff and all they’re doing is advertising every day. Um, and , and , and I go, okay, time out, this, guy’s not here to form a relationship. It does not do me any good to have this guy really as a followed person because , uh, but I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna get anywhere with this dude. This guy is literally probably if I messaged that person, it’s probably not going to go with him. It’s probably going to go to their marketing team that they’ve hired to do that work. Right? So I’m looking for people who are throwing out authenticity that are engaging, that are doing work. Um , and you’ll find business owners and entrepreneurs and people like that agree to doing that. That’s who I’m pushing to . Uh, and then that’s how I’m going to go pursue comment, engage with, because they’re going to come back to me and they’re more inclined to have a conversation. Some of my best , uh , virtual clients that I’ve pulled from LinkedIn, they weren’t from a drip campaign. They were somebody who I constantly kind of stay front of mind. And then eventually after a couple of months, I just through the, through the lure out there, and then they said, Hey, yeah, let’s have a conversation. And, or they approached me and said, Hey, I’ve kind of picked up that you do these things. Can we have a little bit more of a conversation? I’m just curious, and those were fun, right? It’s fun when like a business owner or CEO or somebody decides they want to have a conversation with you because they’re curious about what you’re doing, but I didn’t get it that way by going like, Hey, kind of say something. It’s like, Hey, who are you? I liked that book too . Have you read this book? You know, stuff like that.

Kyle Hamer: 

Yeah. Well, you know, and what’s interesting is it sounds to me like you’ve really leaned hard into , uh , you know, they’ve labeled it, social selling, but I just think it’s it’s business virtual business. Right. It’s, it’s connecting online. What helped you come up with your program? I mean, it sounds to me like a lot of the things you’re talking about have to do with mindset and you’re in an environment where the things that really turn your crank, they really fire you up. They really motivate Jason. And as the outside rep is the person who goes and brings in business, right. It just got to go get the gross , um , DTG, get that gross. How did you, or what did you do to help control your mind or, or, or what are things that you’ve done in order to keep yourself motivated? Cause this could be really a de-motivating time for folks.

Jason Lee: 

Well, let’s start. Um, I I’ve gone through every cycle. Right. Um, you know, meaning of , uh, the emotional roller coaster as part of that deal. Um, I think I came out the Gates , um, when this first happened overly , um, overly hype, you know, like, okay, this is a chance when everyone else has got to fall, so I’m going to like, you know, like I’m just going to keep pushing and the way I would liken it to is , um , you know, I remember, you know, there were seasons of my career early on as a , uh , as a producer , uh, within the fitness industry where like, I would be like, you know, I remember as a young manager, I would, it would be like Christmas week and we’d still win, but I would like make my guys work like so hard when there was nothing going on. Right. Like I would just have a club full of people two days before Christmas nobody’s coming. And I’m like, you know , uh, the , the, the $300 of new memberships, whatever that we got when everyone else got into row , I’d be like, we’re 300 times better than zero, you know? And I’d be like, boastful about that. Right. And then I thought, man, I probably could have just got those 300 back , um, on like a really, really productive day and put all my energy into that. But I just carried every productive day, which , uh , you know, I learned that painfully cause I lost staff along the way and I lost a lot of energy along the way because I used to do that. So I kind of had that, like, I’m not going to get crushed by Corona , uh, you know, for first four weeks. And I was just like blasting and doing stuff and like working around the clock and trying to make up for the fact that we were closed and I wasn’t going to let it defeat me. Um, and then I was just really burned out, like , uh , um , you know, I think , uh , before I went on a little hiatus with my family, I think the day before that hiatus, I had eight zoom calls back to back , um, like eight hours this right. Um, and that was, and I don’t even know what I did for four . I was just like, yeah, I did eight hours, you know? And then , um, now I realized, man , I’m burned out. Like I don’t really want to be doing this. This is not, you know, I like to sit , uh , with Kyle in a , in a , in a coffee shop, man. I like to have that personal stuff. I want to , you know, I felt like , um, I felt like if I’m sitting across from you and we’d get hung on a relational discussion and, and you’re talking to me about your kids and that ends up taking 30 minutes because it’s good. Um, and , and then we look at the clock and we, but , but , but you can feel that and you go, this is a good place to be. Um, you can’t do that here. So what ends up happening is it’s the relational stuff is like a nuanced , you know, it’s like , uh , you know, we do this 15 minute, you know, work thing, you know, we’re like, okay, Hey, how are you go cool kids weekend . Ha cool friends. Now let’s tackle the agenda, then get up the Hill off the skull. Like, so that’s kind of where I feel like , um, I had to take a step back and then I had to just be really intentional. And uh, so how I pushed through it , um, I met a lot lie , man. I had , uh , I had a , probably about a five week , uh, you know, I have a thing called my Bergman that tells me a lot about things that I do when I get burned out. I , uh, I’ll , I’ll, I’ll just push stuff off and not want to get to it. So , um, so what I’ve intentionally done , uh, over the last five, probably five weeks, I’ve started trying to pull myself out of this little dish I was in and , and the ditches that I think every sales guy has been there. And I, and I , uh, let me back up , I don’t wanna refer to myself as a sales guy because I’m actually a comprehensive financial professional, right? So we do a lot of that. Sales just happens to be my role, but I still have the daily task of like every other person. Who’s probably not in your audience. That is a sales person to get my belly kicked across the planet, driving around from car to car, you know, appointment to appointment Woodlands, to Lake city, Maine , a person who’s a prospect only to find out that they’re not a prospect to drive to the other side of town, you know, starting at 6:00 AM. I mean , uh, coming home at nine o’clock at night. So I’ve , I do that and still do that. I love that. Um, but I guess my, what I’m trying to tell you is I got in that bill where I was doing that and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? You start going, start believing all the stuff that’s going on around you starting to see it happen inside of you. And then it starts to control the way you think. And I caught myself there , uh, you know, early on your career, you say to yourself, man , I’m young. When I , when I was young, I used to not understand when someone would tell me they have to talk to your wife. That’d be like, bro , that’s so lame. Like now I’m married. And I guess what I would like, I talked to my wife about buying things. It’s just how I am. So I started to understand when a client’s like, Hey man, can we talk a little bit after the election or this and that. And so, because I’m personally waiting on some things from an investment perspective and some real estate deals and things, and I’m kind of sitting back and I’m sitting on cash, looking at these deals, you know, I was like, you know, I’ll hear that and go, okay, everybody wants to wait till the end of the election. Right? And so then all of a sudden that starts rooting in my brain. And then it’s like, I started throwing in the towel when the reality is there might be a segment of people who start to feel and think that way, but there’s still a segment of people who are seeing it differently and they perhaps need clarity during this journey or they need something else. And so if I, if I hang myself or my thoughts on the negative stuff , um, then I eventually get myself , uh , in a bad habit of expecting the no , or expecting the wrong answer when I reach out to that person. So what I shift in is a mindset of , um, and there’s a great book called the greatest salesman in the world from cognitive Dino OG Mandino. I think I sent you a copy of it. I don’t know if he got it yet.

Speaker 4: 

Yeah, it’s a , it’s on my desk. I was, I was starting to read it this morning before we hopped on

Jason Lee: 

The podcast . Okay, awesome. So inside of that , onside of these 10 scrolls, a lot of that, about this monitor has nothing to do, nothing to do with cells actually it’s as everything to do with behavioral wiring. And so, as an example, I love , uh , some of the things it talks about, but this is kind of where I’m at my , my mindset. I’m like, okay, I’m afraid of what people are going to tell me. So I’m afraid of rejection. So I potentially don’t make calls where instead I’ll say , okay, because I’m a F because I’m getting these negative nos , I’m going to make twice as many calls that I would normally make solely for the reason that I’m going to push myself through the adversity of saying it. And then while it might feel at first, like it’s not effective usage of my time, it’s a retooling of your brain. So it’s not looking at those 200 calls that 200 activities as did I get them perfect or was it right? It’s looking at it as did I change the way that my belief system works. Even if I hear 9,109 , nine , no’s get one. Yes. I’m not going to go out and make a thousand calls to get just a couple of yeses that might be inefficient. I might read my wiring, but I can’t control my mindset to say, I’m going to push as hard as I can. I’m going to, I’m going to think and be creative. I’m going to use these 200 conversations as practice. I’m using them as opportunity to develop a relationship. I’m going to see where this could manifest because I’ve always measured my effectiveness, not by how many clients I got, but how many relationships I developed. And then from there, I’ll let the clients manifest or as an example, right? When I first met you up in the Woodlands that day, you know, I was connecting with you. I was looking at your experience. I had no idea when , when I showed up to meet you, you know, I, I was, I’m gauging based on our conversation, the story that you tell me, if I’m like gonna try to pepper you with some work stuff, or maybe we were referral . I mean, I , how am I supposed to choose that in advance? But what , what I will tell you is this has manifested into a great value out of my life. So if I would have said, Oh , uh , might want to reach out to Kyle. But , uh , what if he tells me, wait until after the election like this, you know , what, if that , what if I, what if I miss that opportunity to over, you know, over the next few months, I mean , I say next few months, because you know, this , uh, this stuff is still up and whatever, I don’t want to get down that path. Does that make sense, man?

Kyle Hamer: 

It does. No, it makes perfect sense. And I think, I mean, I think, you know, from, from my perspective, as it relates to building relationships, I think one of the things that is a , is a common misnomer, or when people think about tools, you know, it sounds to me like this is kind of the experience you’ve lived, where it’s like, well, I’ll use the tool to get the introduction, but I’ll get inside my sweet spot by getting in front of people. And when I get in front of people, it’s over coffee and , or over , uh , you know , a , uh , cheeseburger, lunch, whatever it is, we’ll do something we’ll, we’ll share a little bit of, of, you know, elbow to elbow time. I’ll determine whether or not this person is a prospect or what the, what the status of the relationship is. And you really have two choices. Um, as you go down that path, which is, do I want to keep this relationship Kendall or do I want to kill it? And I think one of the things that I hear is is that outside guys, as they’re transitioning guys that are used to working that particular way, they’re having a hard time figuring out, do I kill or Kendall , right? That’s like, what do I, what do I do with the relationship at this juncture? Cause I don’t, I don’t get the warm fuzzies or I don’t get the, the emotional energy or the things that I would see virtually. However, it seems to me like you’ve kind of figured out , uh , a system of adjustment where you’re not a hundred percent inside sales, almost like a hybrid. You’re not a hundred percent inside sales where you’re just beating the phones every day or stuck on, you know, eight zooms a day. But you’ve, you’ve figured out this , uh , by , uh , well, I think back in the day we said , uh, build a plan, know your plan, work your plan. It seems to me like you’ve adjusted your continuing to adjust it, to find that sweet spot, whether it’s another six months that we’re, we’re in this weird quagmire or if this is something that’s kind of, we have to adjust to it for, for the longer haul. Why D why did guys have such a hard time doing that? Like w why is that behavior modification that you just talked about? So difficult?

Jason Lee: 

Well, let’s, let’s, let’s talk about that from a , from a wiring perspective, right? If you’re in sales or probably , um, right. I can meaning if you’re, if you’ve signed up for this gig, right. They work , there’s a, probably a highlight. So there’s a , there’s a couple scenarios, right? I’m a , uh, a good example of one of those scenarios, but one of them is, you’re just , uh , you’re educated. You, you you’ve dropped yourself into the space. You realize maybe like there’s an engineer that, you know, Hey, I can only go this high. And , um, but there , the man that , that the sales guy in my office, like makes three times as much money. And I’m like over here in the corner and I could be better than that. So you picked a safe career path and you decided to do something more cause you wanted to accelerate beyond that. I mean, I remember a friend of mine who was a , um , uh, an executive recruiter that was an engineer that recruited guys that he was, you know, he said he basically made probably two and a half times the amount of money as the engineers that he was recruiting, but he used to do their job. He just got tired of seeing that ceiling. Right. Uh, that was , uh , that’s that kind of really cool example, but he , he , uh, the , uh , the majority of us know , right. We’re like, you know, I mean, me, I just, I didn’t know , um, what I was going to do. And so I just had to find a gig and the gig was sells and it was early in my life. And I just got kind of , I don’t want to say pigeonholed into our role myself into it. And I look up 20 years later, I’m still doing it. And it’s like, what am I going to do? Stop and go to law school. Like, I, I just got to keep going , uh, and it’s become my DNA. So I think the hardest part that we have is most of us have a wiring or DNA that’s been kind of in Brank grain into our brains over a period of time. And so , um, it’s a , it’s a habit, right? And so you develop these habits that have been wired into you, and then all of a sudden you got to change your habit. And that’s really difficult because the typical sales person or a typical producer, number one, they’re very emotional by nature, right. They live and die by the sword and they liked that. So when you, when someone takes your, your, your routine, right, and then just flips it upside down on you overnight and tells you to go do your job in a completely different manner. And then you’re trying to figure out how to do that. Um, you , you know, there’s, there’s process people, and then there are sales people for a reason, right? And so typically process salespeople, aren’t processed people. So typically the process that they use to go about their business every day , uh, is, was developed by somebody who had more from a sales person to a process person. And so what happened is the paradigm shifted. And then everybody, you know, 99% of the salespeople out in the world today are people. So they’re having to try to reverse a , develop a self process, which is difficult. And then everybody who claims to be a process person is out there selling stuff about how to adjust in these times. But then what, you’re, what I’m saying . And what I feel is there’s a lot of miss miss , uh, you know, the guy telling you how to sell his stuff is the guy who’s probably doing it wrong and a lot of scenarios , right? He’s like he’s coaching himself and telling everybody he’s coach and you go back and you find out he’s not actually even a coach, right? Like, are he, he, he was a coach, but like he never actually produced. And so then now they’re in this new paradigm. And does that make sense? Like I’m saying,

Kyle Hamer: 

Well , it makes perfect sense

Jason Lee: 

As this intranet guru. And I’m like, so where were you three months ago? Like, are you, you know? And , uh, and so I think we’re, we’re all kind of stuck in that deal. So just so yes, I, I had to flip my mind and to realizing I don’t have to pound out eight, nine hour days. I have to just be more creative and , uh, and be more thoughtful. Maybe even spend more time in strategy. Um, instead of just feeling like I’m , I have to get on the wheel and start pedaling as fast as I can, if that makes sense.

Kyle Hamer: 

It does well. And, and from what I know about the Birkman , right. From, if you’re , I’m guessing you’re up into the right, right, right. Your heavy green , um , you feed off being around people and interacting with people, the connection, the, you know, the , the relationship building we talked about, what are some of the things you’ve done? You talked about being burnt out. What are some of the things you’ve done or strategies you’ve deployed to help feed that high energy and feed those parts of your, your heart and your, your mental approach to things to keep your cup full. So you could keep going and not be burnout . Was it changing your, your life balance with work? Was it, you talked about strategy, but what, what did, are the adjustments you made to make sure that you could still meet the daily tasks with the energy that’s required for, for, to be a Jason Lee type day?

Jason Lee: 

So stop times, like I have a very defined stop time, right? I’m done at this time. Um, uh , my wife used to travel for sales and then come home. So we really , um, we’ve, I mean, our relationship has really flourished , um, in the sense that we got committed to the times that we were going to be done, even she was working from home and then getting sucked into the vortex of stuff. And so we would just say like, this is it we’re done. And so we , we created a lot of really good patio discussion sessions, which were great. I think I’ve learned more about the depth of my wife in the last six months than I did for the three years we were together before that. So I’m very, very grateful for that. Um, relational calls, like just, you know , uh , I put , I I’ve always had this habit , um, and I continue to nourish this habit. Um, I’ll put together a list of 20 people every week that I intend to reach out to. Um, and I did this prior to this, in my car. That was my car work. I would always call and check on people. And our big reason for that as I, I , um , I had suffered the pain one time of reaching out to a friend when I first started the industry three years ago. Um, and I was doing what I would normally to go to my warm network, ask him for help. And he was like, dude, how come you only call me when you need something? You know? And I, and I hit that, hung on that, even though he was in sales and I felt like saying, Hey bro, we’re and we’re both sell . I was like, we both know we’re busy, I’m calling you because I need some help. Don’t be at , you know , um, I didn’t say that , um, I actually, I took it personal. And so I said, man, I don’t ever want that to happen again. So I’m going to call 20 people a week so that I’m never catching anybody off guard. Um , not because I intend to then turn around and, you know , join a direct sales company and call them up and be like, Hey, you know, buy some the vitamins. Um , not that there’s anything wrong with that, but , um , uh, I’m saying I don’t ever want to be that guy that , uh , reaches out out of the blue, because what if I do need something, right. I want to stay on top of that, but more importantly , um, relational capital equity is really important. So I’ve, I’ve kind of maintained that. And then at the same time , uh, probably the, the biggest one is , uh , capturing the moment, right? So a couple of times I’ve been trying to like get onto the next thing that I’ve got to do and an opportunity presents itself to stop and , uh , either help my daughter with something or stop and have a conversation in the morning , uh, with my wife. Um, you know, and while I thought that, like, I might be like, okay, but I gotta get to these , you know, this LinkedIn hour that I’ve scheduled myself. Well, if I, if my wife and my daughter needs something or, you know, and that’s an opportunity right there where in the past, because I had a full calendar of crap and I had me , uh , physically had to be there. Um, I couldn’t have stopped for those things, or it was, it was, you know, you, you, you , you you’ve got four kids, right. Um, one , uh , but you know , to scramble, to get them out the door, to get them to school, to do it when my daughter’s homeschooling right now. So, you know, those things are kind of like opportunity , right? Like we had a quick powwow this morning of the table and those things didn’t exist before. So it’s looking at those opportunity when my daughter says, Hey, can you help me with this math problem? And I’m about to go hop on a LinkedIn, you know, I could say help daughter with math problem, or do LinkedIn exercise for myself, I’m doing the math problem, which, you know, and learning to embrace that. If that makes sense.

Kyle Hamer: 

No, it makes perfect sense. I mean, I think it’s one of the things where the, I think it’s one of the silver linings, if you will, of , uh , the business disruption, the process, disruption, the things that we’ve all experienced over the last nine months. Yeah. It, yes. We definitely appreciate teachers more. Yes. We definitely appreciate our people who are working in grocery stores and daycare centers. And they just, the , the people that are making lives go around when you’re a super busy professional. But I think because life was disrupted and interrupted, it forced everybody to slow down a bit and be more intentional with the relationships. I mean, I , I traveled a lot before , um , well into, into 2019 and even late into 2019 was still, you know, in that mode of meeting is more important. Meeting is more important. Meeting is more important and I’ve got a sophomore in high school. Well, if it hadn’t been for COVID, I probably wouldn’t have slowed down enough to really rekindle that relationship and rebuild in things that have been missed out. I can’t go back and make up for the things that have , um , that have moved on, right. The , the , the moments that have , have gone by, but I can be a lot more intentional now because there’s nothing that’s like, Hey, you have to be, yes, you’ll have meetings. You’ll have things that you’ve got to go to. But 90% of the time, Oh, if I walk into my office now, or in 15 minutes, there’s really not any change in productivity, but there will be a big impact in my daughter’s life or my kid’s life. If I don’t take that 15 minutes to focus on them. And so I think there’s been a silver lining, at least for our family. It sounds like for years in strengthening relationships and really, truly understanding the why, which brings me to what’s your, why, what is it that that motivates Jason and, and why, why are you so dead set on connecting people, being a relationship builder in helping people build for the future? Like, why does that turn your crank?

Jason Lee: 

Wow. Okay, man. Um, I didn’t know I was going to get a chance to preach, but I guess I will. Um, I mean , so , uh, I didn’t unders , so I believe that we’re all wired , uh, by, by God for specific things. And I believe a lot of us don’t know , uh , up until a certain point in our lives , uh, what that is, right. We just have these gifts, we have these skills, but sometimes they’re never , uh , first of all, they’re never activated, meaning people don’t actually use them. Mine were , uh, were really brought out in the fitness industry by a mentor who saw that I had gifts. And , uh , it was the first place I ever learned. Um, one that I really enjoyed helping people like helping them lose weight, feel better and helping grow team members. I just, the manifestation of same people go from good to great was just a great thing for me and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Um, and so I never really felt like selling and just felt like I happened to have a skill set to sell, but it was, I think people have understood. Um, you know, when that , when someone became a member of my health glove, I was always like, you’re not just a member of the twin four finish . You’re a member of Jason Lee’s club, like, right . And so you don’t buy anything without talking to me. You don’t do anything without talking, you know , how many members I got in this club, I have access to cars, tires, frickin car washes, dry cleaning. You know , if you, if you, if you’re ever doing anything without talking to me first, you’re going to hurt my feelings because I want to be the guy who takes care of you. And , and so that kind of a mentality translated over into , uh , kind of the , of where I am today. But , um, it wasn’t until I had , uh , suffered probably significant loss through divorce and a lot of money and stuff and job change and get my butt kicked that as an entrepreneur, my first go around , I had literally bottomed out. And then when I found God and specifically Christ , uh, I, I realized rooted in all these things were a desire for kind of a legacy approach because , uh , a lot of, I think at our core, especially as men, we want to have this, you know, we grow up watching these movies where all these Knights and all these people, and they all have these like, cool, you know, like, I don’t know if you grew up watching this stuff, but like, I wanna , you know, there’s always like a legacy behind star Wars, so there’s a legacy behind these things. And so, you know, a lot of us either , uh, I think there’s like absent T role for a lot of males around their children. And so what happened, what we’ve kind of seen is males have disembarked. They go out and they think I got to go sell, sell, sell. So I never come home , uh , or I know, spent quality time doing the right things. And so what I’ve witnessed, whether by whether it be men that are gone completely, and I experienced that a lot in my youth , um, and or men that are there, but they’re never present if that makes sense, being a major gap. So I thought, man, if we could solve that , uh , at its core , um, and , and , and really try to help , uh, I had a man pour into my life and help shape me over the last five to six years. And because of that , um, I would like to say that I’m probably 180 from the person that I was before and in regards to the things that make me tick. So my why is real simple, man, I want to help , uh, my end game is to help as many men as possible, develop a relationship with a higher power, hopefully be Christ, but also lead their families, lead the community, create a kind of a next generation of people who are going to go out and do great things and teach them to lead their households that way. Um, I found a job that allows me to do that. Um, um, I work with peoples financially. I work with business owners and their legacies financially, but at the same time, because I’m free to go out and create relationships. I’ve been able to be actively involved in certain ministries and other things that wouldn’t typically be available. If I had to sit in an office all day and had a boss telling me I had to be here, I had to be there. So I have the benefits and the luxury of having flexibility in my job, but also my job manifests . Like if I have , um, uh , uh , let’s say, you know, a friend who is successful and runs a company, come over to my house and we give some fellowship to them and invite them over and show them. And , and I’ve got, I’ll give you a great example. One guy I’ve been pursuing him and he makes a ton of money, very, very successful. She’s got the most wonderful heart on the planet. And , um , in about two months after chasing him , I realized I want to , I want to help this guy like thrive. Like, man, I want to see him go be amazing with his wife and his kids and do these amazing things, but he’s got some of some, some, maybe some bad habits. And so I’m more concerned about those habits and I’ll put his prospects of him, you know, investing his money with me on the back burner because now that’s my why. And I’d rather see that happen. And then if he becomes a client, great. Does that make sense? So that’s it, man . I mean, at the end of the day , uh, if I can just live my life and see people , uh, just be a little bit better than they were before they met me, I’d probably be pretty happy and I want to make sure I give the glory to him.

Kyle Hamer: 

So that’s great. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for sharing. Tell me, so tell us , um, let me ask it a different way. I wouldn’t say tell us, is there a story , um, uh , that would in your mind kind of , uh , capsulate what COVID, what the business disruption and things have done to you that he’s like, Hey man, I just was looking at this particular story and it basically just sums up what this experience has been like for me. Do you have a story like that?

Jason Lee: 

Oh, like one encapsulating story about this.

Speaker 5: 

Yeah,

Jason Lee: 

Yeah. Um, I have , uh, okay. I’ll give you a really cool story. It might sound completely like I’m a whack job, but I’ll just share it anyways. Um, I’ve had a couple of clients that were , uh, you know, because of the volatility of what’s going on, we’d been on the, on the cusp, right? We were , we’ve been at the five-year-old line. They’re significant cases. Uh they’re like life-changing type deals and, and both like right as they’d been at the finish line , um, you know, we’ve been , um, we’ve, we’ve been a while while , while they’ve been at the finish line, something will come up, right. Something, you know , uh, unbeknownst in , in , uh , in a shift in their organization or whatever. And so it’s like, it keeps pausing, but I mean, we’re talking about handshake. We think we’re about to get them the, you know, we’ve, we’ve done probably two years of work there. My team has done phenomenal work there. Um, and then the con they’re the kind of cases that manifest and allow my, my family’s future for the next 12 months, it takes this kind of breathing room off of us. And so in the last 30 days , uh, I thought we were in the end zone, like we were in the end zone. So we’re making decisions as a household based on those things. Um, and then, you know, we, the ball got fumbled, you know, and so not on our , our part, right. There’s no, there’s no gap there there’s no mistake. It’s just stuff that happens, right? Like we’re, we’re in a very volatile season, right. You pull the Leon lit, Hey, it was bad. So , um, but I had already put a lot of these, our households already put a lot of things in motion based on what we were thought was going in the end zone. Um, and in everybody , everybody’s in sales now, the deals aren’t gone. Right. So I’m being optimistic that they’re still there, but man , uh , like having that happened and then come home and like, and then drive and then like, you’re you got a whole day , like, I didn’t even want to go to work the next day. And then I had like three or four days just back to back to back. But again, we’ve already put things in motion, in my, in my forecast for, for Lee household that , um , that we’re not undoing those things, those things aren’t being undone . Um, and so those things are going, but we’re just kinda like hoping this other stuff comes. But then now there’s this pressure in this environment that fall through we’ve made, we’ve called sweep, right. This stuff falls through. I still got to go figure out how to get sweet , bright plate at work, you know? Um, and if that felt a lot easier when I thought those things were going over the finish line , um , and then all of a sudden, and then what that did, as I knew a lot of my favorite verses Proverbs three, five, three, six, five, three six, which is trust the Lord with all your heart lean, not on your own understanding, he’ll show you which path to take. Well, I use that verse regularly. And then what’s interesting is I would even say these things and you got to trust God going to trust this. You got to trust that. And then what I’m saying is if his defines this as all of that happening, and I’m doing this and having these conversations with people every day in my car and not even trusting him at all. And so I don’t mean to preach in that perspective, but I’m saying this, it was a really big gut check to myself that said, amen , I’ve been, I’ve not, I’ve been very fortunate, very blessed to have a great wife, great life, greenhouse brake company and grateful friends, great relationships, all these things have manifested, right ? And it’s as salespeople. I think we’re wired to forget about all of our victories in the past, because in my , my old job, I can be 122% to go on the 30th and on the fire styles back to zero. And I have this wiring that does that. And it’s just horrible. So if the easiest way for me to describe that is that example right there, because, you know, I told my family, Hey , we’re going this way. And then it’s just been like, you know, and I’m I’m, and I know I’m supposed to keep going this way, but I’m like, Oh my God, am I going the right way? Am I going the right way? I’m going. You know? And so it’s hard to say those words out loud to people every day and trying to be inspired and try to lift other people up to lift your family up and lift your friends up to say all that stuff, and then get in your car and be driving around, going like questioning whether or not that’s the right way in depth on yourself and having a co you know, I hate to say it, maybe confidence problems with it. Like, Oh my God, what am I done? I’m not that we’ve been completely irresponsible stuff. Trust me. I mean , I’m on top of it, but I just mean that to say , uh, yeah, I do . Like, we think we’ve all experienced that, right? Like there’s somebody right now, listen to this who , um, bought a house. They did all this stuff during pandemic. They made these decisions. And then inside of two months, the dynamic of their business has changed. Perhaps they’re in logistics and something’s changed because they’re shutting down Europe again, right? Like that’s happening right now. And someone bought a house because their , their job , their job stuff felt fine because we were coming out pandemic. And then all of a sudden, the boom logistics change Europe’s shut down. They can’t get their product from Europe. You know , there might be some kind of weird widget that goes in a board that they sell, because this is happening in the United States, especially in this region right now because of the Gulf coast. And they are literally going, like their boss showed up yesterday and was like, Hey, did you wanna have Jeff ? Like, that’s the, you know, I, that’s kinda the gist of it. So I hope somebody listen to this would say that, Hey man, you gotta just keep trusting and kinda having faith in that because , uh , it never fails if you keep pushing forward.

Kyle Hamer: 

That’s great. Jason, how can somebody get ahold of you? So, I mean, I think, I think everything we’ve shared today has been fantastic. If somebody wants to follow you, listen in to you or connect with you, or just ask questions about what’s this wild, crazy man, Jason Lee from smart , uh, Houston, what’s he do? Um, how do they get ahold of you?

Jason Lee: 

Um , the easiest thing to do is just through LinkedIn. Uh, um , I’m on there regularly a couple of times a day. Um, you can also email me at J L E at smart group, houston.com. Um, but yeah, I would encourage to engage. Uh, I’m all , I’m an open networker. I love to chat with people , um, and see if there’s any way I can be of value and extend my network and my resources call you’re one of my resources and somebody in my network. I think , um , I think your unique value proposition of , uh, not only being a marketing person, but a marketing person who understands sales. I think sometimes there’s a , a major gap between those two departments, marketing and sales . Um, and it’s because they’re wired differently. So I think you , you’ve done a masterful job of bridging that gap. So, you know, I have you as a resource. I have a lot of other resources, so it involves money and people, man, I tell people to call me, cause I usually have some pretty cool resources to help with those things. And I’m happy to be there for people so,

Kyle Hamer: 

Well, we don’t want to hurt your feelings. As we heard earlier that, you know, you’ve got a tire guy in a car dealer guy and a carwash guy. So like, if, if there’s somebody who needs to know a guy, you gotta go see Jason. I think that’s , uh , that’s if there’s, if there’s any other takeaways other than all the other great juicy things. It’s like, if I got a question, I got to go see Jason,

Jason Lee: 

Just ask me, dude, I’m no somebody trust me. I know them , right? Because , uh, they, let me say this because this makes me so mad. There’s this new thing going around on like , uh , LinkedIn where someone will , uh, so I’m just telling you for your person , like this whole thing of , Hey , if you need me to endorse you, but you don’t know somebody and you’re , cause there’s a new thing where they’ll message you. And they’re like, Hey, let me know if you need some endorsements, like, are you gonna endorse me for leadership? Like you don’t even know me. Um, and then the other one is , is I’ve got this really great referral program, you know, where you can do this and do that. So referral programs are crappy, lean in and Sowers often or endorse somebody. It says a whole lot about , um , who you , what your name means because I’m not signing my name off anybody, unless we’ve done this. And I sure as hell , ain’t letting you talk to my clients for a couple of hundred bucks. So , uh, like build some value into what you’re doing. We’ve trying to throw that janky stuff out there. So ,

Kyle Hamer: 

Uh, th that , that they are aware it’s at 20 seconds on your, on your Gulf coast growth show, what’s it about ,

Jason Lee: 

Uh, the Gulf coast man , uh, everything is about growth in the economy. Uh, we are a third-party advocate. We serve with the economic lions , Houston port region. And , uh, if a lot of people are unfamiliar about the significant impact of the Gulf coast and what all it does from a logistics, transportation, economic perspective, everything that comes in and out of the state of Texas and even now participates in drives towards the Midwest is happening down in our port and Gulf coast region . So it’s really critical for people to be in tune with exactly what’s taking place, because it has a direct impact to your , uh, to your pocket book , to your jobs, to local jobs and to the development of our community. So a lot of times when you see traffic and things happening , uh, on the roads and you’re wishing those things would get done. I’m typically trying to bring people on our show who are communicating the why’s behind what’s taking place and how it’s going to help impact you , uh , here in the city of Houston and throughout our state of Texas.

Kyle Hamer: 

That’s great. Well, Jason, we’ve really loved having you been on the show. Uh , it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much for your generosity and being willing to be vulnerable and share , um, you know, just what the last nine months have been like a day in the life of Jason Lee. Appreciate it, man. Thank you for those of you who are listening, you’ve been listening to another summit podcast. I’m your host, Kyle Hemer remember to like subscribe, follow, and if you want to get , um, information on how to get connected with Jason, make sure you look down in the comments or the description of the particular episode, and we’ll have all that contact information again. I’m Kyle, Hemer your host. And until next week you’ve been listening to summit podcast.

Jason Lee
Jason LeeEntrepreneur/Podcast Host
Jason is the Vice President of Smart Group Houston. As an entrepreneur, podcast host, sales leader, father, and relationship builder, Jason has cemented his place as a human connector for all who come into his network. When he’s not helping businesses build for the future, you’ll find Jason spending time with his wife and daughter, riding bikes, playing golf, or enjoying the outdoors.